8 Ball-ball In Hand Rule
1/26/2018 12:02:02 AM
8 Ball-ball In Hand Rule
I'm confused about 8 ball—ball in hand procedure. The rule states...When the cue ball is in hand, the shooter may place the cue ball anywhere on the playing surface and may continue to move the cue ball until he executes a shot. Players may use any part of the cue stick to move the cue ball, including the tip, but not with a forward stroke motion.
What is the phrase..."but not with a forward motion"...mean? can you explain this mysterious statement to me? it seems contradictory, first it says you can move the cue ball around by using your cue stick, but then it say's you cant do it with a forward stroke motion.
I'm at wits end as to what they mean by, "but not with a forward motion"
Could you explain this?
This question references the following Billiard Glossary terms:
This question relates to the following billiard rules:
8 Ball-ball In Hand Rule
Replies & Comments
billiardsforum on 1/26/2018 5:03:38 AMIt basically means you can place the ball on the table and shepherd it around using a side to side motion, or a backwards motion until it reaches your intended starting position, however, the instant the cue moves the ball with a forward stroke motion, that shall be deemed to be your shot.
Hopefully this clarifies things.
user1516942921 on 1/26/2018 6:55:31 PM
This doesn't make sense. How would you reach your intended starting position if you are not allowed to move the cue ball towards your intended starting position.
This situation having to use your cue stick to adjust the cue ball, would only be necessary should you have to reach from the long end off the table to the extreme other side.
I notice that they don't just use the phrase" forward motion" instead they use the phrase "forward stroke motion" the word "stroke" is the key here, which would imply a bridged hand stroke tapping the cue ball forward similar to making a shot - to be improper, because it could be misconstrued as an intent to play a shot.
I need my question answered by a rules official.
I think the phrase "forward stroke motion" should be changed to just "forward motion" if that is in fact what they mean.
Joe Adamo
- billiardsforum on 1/26/2018 9:02:04 PM
I agree with you totally. It's called "ball in hand" - just make it a rule that you should place the ball with your hand. The minute your cue touches it, that's your shot. The verbiage is convoluted and the rule is unnecessary I would say. I honestly don't see any reason at all to be positioning the cue ball with your cue. Place it, from your hand to the spot you want it, and then take your shot.
Thank you for using some common sense, however what does a person who is in a wheel chair do when he is unable to reach a place on the table he would like to shoot from. (I have play with handicap pool players). When they have ball in hand, they use the cue to position the cue ball of which in most cases must be rolled with the cue stick forward to his selected destination. What I am beginning to realize is that most people do not understand the rule, because they are misconstruing the phrase "but not with a forward stroke motion", the key in this phrase is the words"forward stroke"
I looked up the definition of this phrase and this is what it really means...
Definition of "Stroke"
In it's most basic form, the term "forward stroke" refers to the physical movement or motion of the shooter's arm and the cue stick. This includes the movement itself, the speed, the angle, the precision, and all other aspects of the act of making the shot. It may also refer in general to a particular player's shooting technique and abilities.
Also the definition of a "pool shot"
The definition of a pool shot, is when the player is clearly physically and mentally obviously making a shot; that he/she is in the act of making a shot.
An opponent would have to be a freaking idiot not to know this....
There are situations where a player must move the cue ball with his cue in a forward direction...
And finally, who's to say which direction the player will play his shot after the ball is in play, he can still play that ball in any direction he wants to, so which way is forward.
The Ball in hand rule is not explicit, and should be rewritten, because there are pool players who will twist it to mean what ever suits them.
- billiardsforum on 1/27/2018 9:46:00 PM
"Forward" refers to the trajectory of the cue stick (not the cue ball). If you are moving the cue stick forward ("forward", from the shooter's perspective) and cue tip contacts the cue ball, that is the shot.
I agree that in 99.9999% of cases, it would be obvious whether or not the player intended to actually execute a proper shot, or was just positioning the ball, but since in competition play, the referee needs some guideline by which to "draw the line"... You see where I am going...
In other words, there are people who shoot pool who are total idiots...
The rule should be reworded, to read:
Anyone who cannot tell when a player is in the act of making a shot, should not be playing the game. and anyone who would be so low in character to claim not to be making a shot when he really is, should be barred from the room.
And like wise, anyone who cant tell when their opponent is in the act of making a shot...
user1597889746 on 8/19/2020 7:15:47 PM
From the rules it seems you can only use the cue ball, hit the eight ball, to sink an object ball. But once the table is open this is not allowed.
Is this correct?
If you sink the cue ball and your ball are you penalized by resetting two balls back on the table? e.g. one for the cue ball and one of your object balls?
If you miss your called shot on the eight ball are you penalized, and if so, in what manner?
RayMills on 8/20/2020 1:49:45 PMBe sure to check the glossary on this site for the definition of any specific words used below.
From the rules it seems you can only use the cue ball-hit the eight ball-to sink an object ball. Is this correct.
Is "hit the 8-ball" supposed to be in parentheses? Most shots are indeed intended to pocket an object ball, but some are intended to sink another (non-8-ball) object ball (via combination or carom shot), and a defensive shot usually doesn't intend to sink anything. But they all have to start with the cue ball touching a legal, numbered ball.
But once the table is open this is not allowed.
The table being "open" is the state in which the game starts and a state it never returns to, unless a player(s) keeps fouling on their initial shots, or you're describing a table with only the 8-ball left.
If you sink the cue ball and your ball are you penalized by resetting two ball back on the table. One for the cue ball and one of your object balls?
In most 8-ball rules you do not reset ("spot") any balls, and the cue ball ("in-hand") may be placed anywhere that doesn't touch another ball.
WPA rules state that the only ball to be spotted is the 8-ball when it has been tossed off the table during the break, which is miraculously uncommon. Most 8-Ball rules are constructed to acknowledge that non-cue balls which have been pocketed on a coin-operated table cannot easily - or cheaply - be retrieved for spotting, so the rule applies to all tables.
If you miss your called shot on the eight are you penalized, if so in what manner?
There is no penalty for a non-foul missed shot on any ball.
8 Ball-ball In Hand Rule
- Title: 8 Ball-ball In Hand Rule
- Author: user1516942921 (Joe Adamo)
- Published: 1/26/2018 12:02:02 AM
- Last Updated: 1/26/2018 5:06:09 AM
- Last Updated By: billiardsforum (Billiards Forum)
