Foul on Pink Ball
10/27/2024 7:11:38 AM
Foul on Pink Ball
I have a question about what happens in snooker under the following scenario:
- Player A is 15 points behind Player B
- Just the pink and black balls remain on the table.
- Player B pots the pink BUT in the process, the white was also pocketed.
I know that a 6 points are awarded to Player A, but, does the pink ball get re-spotted or not?
If it doesn't, Player A has been now denied the chance to win. Guess who was Player A!
This question relates to the following billiard rules:
Foul on Pink Ball
Replies & Comments
billiardsforum on 2/5/2025 5:12:37 PMI guess you probably found your answer by now, but I'll answer as best I can for anyone else coming across this question.
- The pink ball does not get re-spotted, because when a ball is legally potted, it does not get re-spotted, even if a foul occurs at the same time (despite fouling with the cue ball).
- You are correct, Player A is awarded 6 points because the pink ball is worth 6. Player A is now only 9 points behind.
- With only the black ball remaining, which is worth 7 points, Player A is in a precarious "snookers required" situation. This means that the player must force his opponent into fouling at least one time in order to have a chance to win.
So, after your situation plays out the game is still in play, but Player A's chance of winning is slim.
user1730027497 on 2/6/2025 8:29:45 AM
No I hadn't had an answer, so thank you for that.
I have to say that I am surprised. I thought that because the pink was potted by what, in effect was a foul shot, that the penalty would have been 6 points to Player A as well as pink having to be re-spotted!
- billiardsforum on 2/6/2025 6:52:24 PM
I also had to double check that. Here's what I found in the WPBSA rule book (which is NOT easy to follow by any means—quite awkward and difficult to follow).
Basically I took your scenario as the player legally potted the pink ball. The cue ball falling does not in and of itself invalidate that legal pot. The stroke which potted the pink ball was legal.
Section 3, Rule 11 "Penalty Values", subsection (a)(vii) states:
11. Penalty Values
The following acts are fouls and incur four penalty points unless higher penalty points are indicated in paragraphs (a) to (d) below.
- (a) Value of the ball on by:
- [...]
- (vii) causing the cue-ball to be pocketed
- [...]
This tells us that pocketing the cue ball (scratching) in snooker is a foul which results in penalty points. There is nothing in rule 11 which states that this foul invalidates the legal pot of the pink ball.
For a pot to be legal, it has to be the ball "on" and be struck and pocketed according to the rules.
How can we prove the shot (on the pink ball) was a legally potted ball? There is NO RULE which states that a foul "cancels a legal pot". Since no such rule exists, the pot stands.
Sorry there isn't a more clear and direct rule for this scenario—I find it extremely frustrating as well.
Here's one more reference to a question elsewhere which is similar to yours, and the answer doesn't mention re-spotting the potted coloured ball here either:
If anyone knows of an alternate way to apply the rules, please let me know.
- (a) Value of the ball on by:
Very interesting and thank you for taking time to follow up.
It just feels wrong to not re spot the pink!
I would be interested to see if there are any other views on the rules that may or may not apply.
Foul on Pink Ball
- Title: Foul on Pink Ball
- Author: user1730027497 (Richard Gearing)
- Published: 10/27/2024 7:11:38 AM
- Last Updated: 2/5/2025 5:04:49 PM
- Last Updated By: billiardsforum (Billiards Forum)
