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Victor Pool Table

1/11/2007 8:20:53 AM

Victor Pool Table

I need some help with regards to a Victor Billiard Table.

I have a 9 ft. Victor pool table which I know nothing about. The plate at the head of the pool table says Victor Billiards, Philadelphia, Pa..

I bought this table 20+ years ago from a pool hall in the Philadelphia area that was going out of business.

The table has just about every piece stamped with "6 9 99" into the wood.

I really know nothing about the pool table or the Victor Billiards company. If anyone could help me out I would appreciate it.

Victor Pool Table

Replies & Comments
  1. phagermannbilliardsforum on 1/11/2007 10:55:36 AM

    Victor Billiard was a company in Philadelphia. Apparently is was located South Philly and you could walk by the front of the shop and see the guys building the pool tables. They also did some pool cue work done in a store front they had in South Philadelphia.

    You may also try contacting this guy regarding his 2/14/2006 classified advertisement selling a Victor Billiard Table:

    Victor Pool Table, circa 1936, 4.5 x 9, 1.25” 3-Piece Slate, 100% Vulcanized Rubber, all new leather pockets and drops, perfect vulcanized cushions – smoothest table you’ll ever play on. 1st ever silent return table. $4,200 OBO - buyer responsible for removal, S&H). Pictures available.

    mmaurer@mgm-solutions.com

    Apparently the Victor Billiard Co. was the first to implement silent return mechanisms. I am not sure as to how valid that claim is.

    Here are some photos of another Victor Billiard Co. Pool Table from an eBay sale that occurred recently. It didn't have any bids, so we don't know how much it was truly worth in the marketplace. The starting bid was USD $1500 for a Vintage Victor 4 X 8 Pool Table from either 1940 or 1950. It has a solid wood frame with metal trim, and included a 3-piece, 1 inch slate.

    Then, this other auction for a Victor Billiard table went for $USD 100. Check out the crest in the image.

  2. phagermannstrong on 2/20/2007 10:32:57 AM

    I have a Victor pool table model #5938 that I am in the process of restoring. Do you have any US contacts to rebuild the cushions etc?

  3. phagermannbilliardsforum on 2/20/2007 11:45:44 AM

    Since the Victor Billiards Company is no more, there wouldn't be any authorized dealers. Your best bet is to hunt for a local billiard supply shop with a technician who has experience in working with older tables.

    Ask for references and photos if possible. Let us know who you choose, and how it comes out.

  4. phagermanntxbigguy on 3/22/2007 9:03:04 PM

    I also have a Victor Billiard table. It is a 9 foot pool table with a "The Cleveland" plate on it. Do you guys have any idea of the value of a Victor Cleveland pool table?

  5. phagermannstrong on 7/23/2007 9:47:30 PM

    I also have a 9' Victor Billiard table and I am in the process of restoring it.

    It is marked with the number "5938".

    Someone removed the Victor Billiards plate that was in the top of one of the end rails. Do you know anyone that may have one of these Victor Billiards plates?

  6. phagermannbilliardsforum on 7/23/2007 10:53:32 PM

    Yes, there have actually been 5 or 10 Victor pool table owners and collectors in and out of this forum over the past year. I'll gather up the contacts and put the word out that you are looking.

    Who should people contact if they have the Victor plates for you?

    Also, I'd love it if you did a few photos of your Victor pool table restoration process! There are quite a few visitors interested in this stuff. Can you snap a few, and perhaps we can do a little article about your restoration of your Victor billiard table?

  7. phagermannstrong on 8/1/2007 11:14:30 PM

    My Victor Billiards pool table has been broken down in parts since the last time I used it (27 years ago). I am in the process of putting it back together. I have already had the bumpers replaced with high-speed Brunswick bumpers. The original table was sold to one of the US CSO service clubs, so, while it was well made it was only painted on the outside with burgundy and black speckle paint. I had a local kitchen cabinet contractor remove all the paint and put veneer on the wood sides and legs with cherry with a dark cherry stain. I am polishing the aluminum pocket top parts myself.

    The pocket bottoms (metal) were painted with the burgundy and back speckle paint. I had them sand blasted and took them to an auto paint shop and had them painted with a high gloss acrylic paint to match the dark cherry stain. I also cleaned all the bolt heads and had them painted with the same matching paint. I have reinstalled the slate and am in the process of filling an sanding the cracks. After that I will call in my contact that added the Brunswick high speed bumpers to recover the bumpers and table with felt. I will be using a felt that is backed with a light rubber backing. My hope is using these products will bring the table back to at least it's original play characteristics.

    The table when completed should look much better than the original no frills table and should also be great to play on.

    So if you can help me find an original Victor name plate that is missing on my Victor Billiards table model 5938, then I will be able to finish this project.

    I will try to send you a picture when it is completed. This may be a while since I am only working on this project when I have time.

    Greg

  8. phagermannjags on 8/2/2007 9:52:51 AM

    Wow, sounds beautiful, can't wait for the pictures.

  9. phagermannbilliardsforum on 8/7/2007 7:57:21 PM

    I came across this Victor Pool Table that is for sale. This model of Victor pool table was built in the 1940s and features a 3 piece 1 inch slate.

    This was going for $1000.

  10. phagermannREGINASGARDEN on 9/12/2007 6:05:30 AM

    These are pictures of the Victor Pool table base and slate. We have the rails, bumpers, ball returns stored as well. The finish on the rails is the same as the base.

  11. phagermannbronxguy on 9/24/2007 6:51:53 PM

    I'm glad that there are so many Victor owners out there.

    I have two questions about my 9-foot Victor table:

    • How can I find the model number if there is one?
    • Where can I find out how to take it apart and deliver it to my son's house?
  12. phagermannphistrn on 9/29/2007 8:26:51 AM

    Can anyone tell me where to get "new" cushions for my Victor table? I am getting the table moved from my father's house, and I'd like to have new or refurbished cushions for the table before reassembly. Also, if anyone could suggest a good replacement felt, I would appreciate it.

  13. phagermannthedoorsguy on 11/6/2007 4:23:40 AM

    The founder of The Victor Billiard Co. in Phila. in 1920 was Frank Lanza, Sr., and his grandson, Ed, now owns and operates Ed Lanza Billiard Co. in Magnolia, NJ - a authorized Premier Brunswick dealer. His father, Frank Jr., installed my Willie Mosconi brand table 27 years ago out of the same shop, where I have since seen Victor tables being restored by Ed, as well as framed US Patent Office drawings of Frank Sr.'s ball return gulley system.

    If anybody is a good resource for Victor Billiard Co. info, parts, and restoration it would be Ed. His website with contact info can be found at lanzabilliards.com/Our_History.html If you contact him, please tell him Bob Thomas referred you.

    @billiardsforum - regarding the Victor Billiards silent ball return system, check out the Lanza patents for their gulley system, among the first "silent" ball return. All three patents were filed in the class CCL-473-22 (which is the class for patents on "billiards or pool table with attached ball rack with conveying chutes interconnecting pockets with ball rack"). See images of Ed Lanza's ball return patents 1626242, 1630345, and 1811238 which include the technology later used in Victor pool tables.

  14. phagermannhettie on 11/6/2007 8:01:36 AM

    Interesting! What is your connection to the Lanza family?

  15. phagermannthedoorsguy on 11/6/2007 9:17:07 AM

    My connection is that I am nothing more than a long-time customer. As I mentioned, "Frank Jr., installed my Willie Mosconi brand pool table 27 years ago out of the same shop". A few years ago I saw my first BBC Co. Counterweight Dual Chalk Retracting Rig in their shop while shopping for an item to go with my brother-in-law's "new" old Minnesota Fats table. That started the mental wheels turning, I got some BBC Co. weights on eBay, some parts from Lanza's shop and from elsewhere, made my own pool cue chalk hanger and since then have been offering them occasionally on eBay.

    I just found the Lanza/Victor patent info Googling on a whim the other day, and then this website while Googling Victor Billiards today.

    None of this would have transpired had I not seen the Willie Mosconi nameplate lying on the floor under my neighbor's table he was selling at a garage sale back in 1980. I graduated from high school in the South Jersey town where Mosconi lived, and my girfriend was friends with his daughter Candy, and I was a big fan. All that added up to an impulse purchase of the table for a hundred bucks, which I would have passed on had I not found the nameplate. The name implied more quality than the appearance conveyed.

    All I needed then was someone to move the table and set it up in my basement, which yielded Frank Lanza as my random yellow pages selection. He did my table in the afternoon after completing a morning billiard table re-felting at the prestigious Union League on Broad St. in Philly. I indeed felt honored. It wasn't until my shopping mission many years later at the shop that I saw the Victor table, framed patents, and learned of Ed's heritage and the Lanza legacy.

  16. phagermannJimmiefingers on 12/13/2007 9:44:39 AM

    I recently bought a Victor pool table, and was trying to do some research. It is a 9' X 4.5' Victor Billiard Co. pool table and has a label "Play King" on it. It has a 3-piece pinned 1" thick slate and a silent ball return. I bought it for $500.00 dollars and was told that I was responsible for removal of it.

    It looks to be from around the 1960's but not quite sure?

    I have to say that for someone who has never taken a pool table apart, it was very well designed. The rails, sides and bed system was very well built. I plan on restoring it to as near as original as possible, as it will need new bumpers and felt.

    I want to thank @billiardsforum for posting regarding the Lanza Family who I can now call and get all the information I will need to do the correct restoration. Thanks again!

  17. phagermannthedoorsguy on 12/13/2007 7:31:07 PM

    Hello Jim,

    Please see my earlier reply for the Victor Billiards Co. info per Ed Lanza Billiard Co. with his website link where his phone number can be obtained.

    I was there just yesterday to get a couple parts for one of my Dual Retracting Chalk rigs* when Ed returned to the shop from an installation job. Of the several modern & antique tables in his showroom, I asked him if the beautiful white one near the front door way at the opposite end was a vintage Victor with the patented silent ball return. His confirmation was followed with a demo drop of a couple balls (seen, not heard!), and some background on his personal restoration of the circa 1960's table with the steel base. He mentioned that he currently has about eight other Victor tables in stock, some 8', 8-1/2', and 9' (like the display).

    Good luck with your project, Bob Thomas

  18. phagermannbilliardsforum on 12/17/2007 6:12:24 AM

    FYI - couple more Victor Pool Table pictures in another new thread.

  19. phagermannthedoorsguy on 12/17/2007 7:35:57 PM

    @REGINASGARDEN, The pool table in your post looks very similar to the so-called "Victor" model manufactured by "Primo Craft Home Furnishings":

    So, to the person who said they didn't have the "Victor Billiards Co." nameplate or some other documentation, there may be doubts that the table was manufactured by the former Victor Billiards Company referenced in this thread.

  20. phagermannguest on 12/17/2007 7:41:31 PM

    You are right, it does look a lot like the Primo-Craft table - but the ball return system appears authentic, and not like that of the Primo Craft pool tables. I assume that you are talking about the images in the newest Victor thread right? (2 posts above this one)

  21. phagermannthedoorsguy on 12/17/2007 9:24:36 PM

    Yes, the ball return system in your posting appears to be an authentic Victor Billiard Co. patented gully system (see my post with the patent links in this thread.

    Yes, I am talking about the images in the newest Victor Billiard Co. pool table thread.

  22. phagermannRich Gallo on 1/22/2008 8:47:08 PM

    Hi my name is Richard Gallo. My Grandfather Vincent Gallo was one of the founders of Victor Billiard Corporation in South Philadelphia. People knew him as Jimmy Gallo. The business was founded in 1921 by Vincent Gallo and Frank Lanza. They were very close friends that worked together at RCA Victor in Camden New Jersey. That is where they came up with the name "Victor" Billiard. The business started in a garage and over the years it grew to 3 factories, all in South Philadelphia. Their business grew rapidly, they got into building gaming tables for casinos in the South and they also built furniture, etc.

    If you have any questions, let me know. My father Vincent Gallo and all of my uncles are still with us, including my uncle Bill Gallo. The business was a very big part of their lives growing up. They still talk of the many memories.

    I have a lot of information about Victor pool tables but no time right now to talk about it.

    Originally posted by billiardsforum
    Apparently the Victor Billiard Co. was the first to implement silent return mechanisms. I am not sure as to how valid that claim is.

    You are correct. This was the first silent ball return. It was developed by Frank Lanza, one of the founders of Victor Billiard Co.

  23. phagermannKahauna on 2/2/2008 12:37:27 PM

    My Grandfather was a partner in the Victor Billiard pool table company. Its started in 1921, the shop was at 1900 S. Chadwick Street in South Philadelphia. It was on the 2nd floor of a Stable.

    Vincent Gallo and Frank Lanza created and started the Victor Billiard Pool Table Company. The original name of the company was Victor Billiard Pool Table Company, later "Pool Table" was dropped from the title. When they started to grow we bought a building at 1438 Federal Street, in South Philadelphia.

    The original pool table were made out of Hard Maple, Oak, Teak, and Mahogany. They also produced shuffle boards, and ping pong tables. In the early 40's we made Dice Tables.

    The Victor pool tables were shipped everywhere in the United States. A lot of the pool tables were shipped to Atlantic City near the end of the war 1944 & 1945 to set up entertainment facilities for soldiers returning to the United States.

    My Dad, who's name is also Vincent Gallo is 81 years old and can probably answer a lot of questions regarding the Victor Billiard Pool Tables.

    My email address is nancybelfie@comcast.net.

    He would be happy to provide you with any information you may have.

  24. phagermannquickshot on 5/18/2008 11:14:27 PM

    Now I'm really getting jealous.

  25. phagermannLouis DeTitta on 5/23/2008 5:38:33 PM

    I have a victor billiards pool table for sale that is 4/1/2 x 9 with a 3 piece slate that is 1/1/4 inch thick. The numbers are 5-6586. The railings are white inlaid but the rest is painted. I am interested in selling it. Please email and let me know what your best offer is and if you are interested in it.

  26. phagermannRob Gorski on 2/9/2009 1:50:57 PM

    I have a Victor pool table and I bet its from the 40's or 50's. The track-work looks like the pics on post #3 but the base is a lot thicker. I know the table I have was in my dad's basement and was put there in the 60's.

    How do i tell how old it is?

    And on yeah, I will restore this table. I love old things that are neat and cool, and there is nothing like the game of pool.

  27. phagermannjerseyjoe1979 on 2/10/2009 12:09:03 AM

    Wow, am I ever glad to find this website.

    I have a Victor Table that's been in my family for at least 50 years! My Great-Grandfather, Grandfather, Godfather, and Father all played on the table, and one day it'll get passed to me.

    It was purchased by my Great-Grandfather, who owned Columbus Motor Freight in Riverside NJ in the 1930s through the 1950s.

    We had it restored about 20 years ago, but it's in need of another restoration.

    It's a 3-piece slate, with a center spout. The original leather pockets are all still intact, but they are badly decrepit. They need to be completely rebuilt.

    Can anyone tell me ANYTHING about this table? Maybe the model name, year of production?

    Here are a few pictures of what it looks like:

    I've been searching for years, with no luck.

    if anyone can tell me anything at all, that would be fantastic, and I would really appreciate it.

    Thank you! JerseyJoe

  28. phagermannthedoorsguy on 3/18/2009 9:31:45 PM

    A great-looking vintage Victor pool table currently on eBay (Mar 18 2009 - Mar 28 2009) for local pickup in the Philadelphia area just went for $2650 with 18 bids! The price for this pool table more than tripled on the last day and doubled on the last 2 bids within the last 11 seconds.

  29. phagermannthedoorsguy on 5/16/2009 8:00:33 PM

    Here's another vintage Victor Billiards Co. artifact on eBay - Vintage Victor Billiards Co antique pool cue stick rack up for auction from May, 16 2009 to May 23, 2009 in Bloomingdale, NJ.

  30. phagermannColorado Pool Table Guys on 1/7/2010 4:18:10 PM

    We moved/installed an old Victor pool table the other day...

    coloradopooltables.blogspot.com/2010/01/1950s-victor-pool-table.html

  31. phagermannthedoorsguy on 1/7/2010 6:00:43 PM

    @Colorado Pool Table Guys - Informative post with lots of pics that might be helpful to capable DIYers, plus internal silent ball return video.

    Quality OEM Craftsmanship + Expert Installation Workmanship = Perfection

  32. phagermannStuart Alexander on 1/24/2010 3:38:22 PM

    Lanza Billiards in NJ is owned by Ed Lanza decendant of Frank Lanza Sr,the founder of Victor Billiard Co. Contact them They can help you. www.lanzabilliards.com

  33. phagermannFOP15 on 3/4/2010 5:57:30 PM

    I currently have a Victor Billiard Table #6750 in good condition and I am looking for answers to the following:

    1. How old is a Victor Pool Table serial/model #6750?
    2. How much is it worth?

    We are trying to get a price range for how much this Victor pool table is worth before we decide if we want to sell it.

    We are thinking of selling it to raise money for our local Fraternal Order of Police Lodge and didn't want to undervalue the pool table.

  34. phagermannFast Eddie Levitt on 6/18/2010 8:02:35 AM

    I owned a pool room in Virginia Beach, Virginia in the 1970's and we had 10 Victor "Cleveland Deluxe" pool tables. To this day, I still play on one at my home. This 4.5 x 9.5 table is top of the line when it comes to tight play. I had the pocket castings chromed and continually work on the independent gully returns.

    Although I do not claim to be a "Victor pool table" expert, I do have a significant amount of experience and would be happy to share that with anyone here on the billiards forum. My table was purchased with nine others from an old Victor Billiard Co. distributor by the name of "C.P. Dean" out of Richmond Virginia in 1966. The tables were built in 1965.

    Should you or anyone else be interested in pictures, let me know and I will be glad to send some. Also, I do have some replacement parts for the Victor pool table gully returns. My supply is limited, but the parts are original.

    Feel free to contact me:

    Email: edblevitt@aol.com
    Phone: (216) 272-0563

  35. phagermannTim Bondman on 10/1/2010 8:42:41 AM

    I have one of these Victor pool tables.

    I will sell it for $500.

  36. phagermannmrstegmoto on 1/18/2014 2:20:45 AM

    I've got a 1960's Victor Billiards 3 pc, 1" slate, 9' pool table. It's all in parts and I am thinking I'm missing hardware for it. But I'm very excited about restoring this table!

    I'll see if I can post some pics of what I got.

  37. phagermanndan-fox on 10/12/2016 10:43:43 PM

    I am trying to identify this Victor Billiards pool table which looks the same as the Victor pool table shown in a bunch of the photos above. Below is a picture of the ball return system and another of the paint job.

    1476326623_victor-ball-return.jpg

    1476326604_victor-paint-job.jpg

  38. phagermannbilliardsforum on 7/30/2017 10:14:28 PM

    @dan-fox - The table in your photo is the Victor Billiards "Cleveland Deluxe" model I believe.

    Here is the page from the Victor Billiards catalog showing the model:

    victor-billiards-cleveland-pool-table.jpg

  39. phagermannuser1525127002 on 4/30/2018 6:23:24 PM

    I have a Victor Billiards pool table with serial # 4085.

    My Grandfather got it from a military base and put it in my Godfathers house in 1965 when they closed the base.

    I would love to know what year it was made. It is a 3-piece slate, 9ft pool table, and has 4 legs. It isn't fancy but to think who might've played on that table from after WW2 to 1965... Total heirloom.

  40. phagermannbilliardsforum on 4/30/2018 7:04:22 PM

    What model do you have? Share some photos and we'll be able to narrow down the time period for you. The serial number is useless for dating the table. Records are gone as far as I know.

  41. phagermannFast Eddie Levitt on 4/30/2018 9:07:15 PM

    The Victor “Cleveland Deluxe” 4 1/2 x 9’ pool tables I have found for sale in recent years have been all priced in similarly:

    • Around $300 for those in "operational but rough looking condition".
    • Around $1,000 for those in "excellent condition".

    I lost mine during a fire. My insurance company replaced it with an $11,000 Brunswick Gold Crown V Tournament pool table with ball return. Obviously the insurance value is sensational and not to be used to indicate the market value.

    But other than insurance, there is really very little cash value to the Victor Cleveland Deluxe Edition pool tables.

  42. phagermannRich Gallo on 5/1/2018 10:19:11 AM

    The number is a part number. They did not number the pool tables e.g. Victor Billiards pool tables didn't have serial numbers.

  43. phagermannJIM K on 5/8/2018 11:31:13 AM

    I have a 9-foot Adelphian pool table by Victor Billiards. It plays great with good action from original cushions.

    I would be interested to see another Victor Adelphian pool table.

  44. phagermannDan Vander on 1/2/2019 6:19:29 PM

    I have a Victor pool table as well and just had it serviced. Photos and details in the linked post.

  45. phagermannRich Gallo on 6/26/2019 6:01:27 PM

    If the pool table is made of wood, then it was more than likely made anywhere between the 1920s and 1930s.

    In the 1940s they started to use Formica on the tops of their pool tables.

  46. phagermannuser1563655741 on 7/20/2019 1:49:03 PM

    This is a Victor Billiards "Philly" model.

    I’m taking this baby apart as we speak! It's a nice piece of history I’m happy to restore. I’m stoked! First time owner!

    I've installed thousands of Olhausen and Brunswick pool tables and such in a former career. Some were very nice but none have character like the old hand made tables like Victor pool tables. Some things the CNC machines just can not recreate.

    20BEA7C8-90E4-4CDA-8B50-5F9567BC1BBA.jpeg

  47. phagermannbilliardsforum on 8/14/2019 4:03:42 PM

    Congratulations! Good luck with the restoration.

    I am excited to see some detailed photos of the finished project!

  48. phagermannuser1573574537 on 11/12/2019 8:12:46 AM

    Trying to put my Victor Billiards table back together after 15 years...

    I've had it since 1993 I believe.

    20191112_104754.jpg

  49. phagermannO2doc on 1/15/2020 9:55:59 PM

    For what it’s worth…

    I just finished resurrecting my Cleveland Standard after it spent 3 decades in pieces in my basement. I was faced with a deteriorated Lanza ball return with disintegrated rubber and rusted clamps.

    After touching base with Ed Lanza (see 2007 posts), I decided to go rogue, and was able to fabricate a ball return system using 3" PVC pipe for < $120 from the box store.

    Here are the additional construction photos inclusive of one that’s effectively a measured drawing.

    PVC Pipe Ball-Return for Pool Tables (PDF)

    PVC-Return.jpg

  50. phagermannuser1563655741 on 2/6/2021 9:08:41 AM

    Sorry for forgetting to update the thread.

    I've finished a full rebuild of my 9' Victor "Philly" pool table that I shared earlier.

    DB349937-743D-411C-8612-B8924EC54532.png

    More photos in my original post linked above.

  51. phagermannuser1633954732 on 10/11/2021 5:18:53 AM

    I'm picking up a Victor pool table this week.

    I'm looking forward to installing it in my newly finished billiard room. I will send pictures and updates as I proceed.

  52. phagermannuser1644247878 on 2/7/2022 7:33:41 AM

    We bought a new house in South Jersey and it came with a Victor pool table.

    Details are posted here: My Victor Billiard Company Pool Table

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Victor Pool Table

  • Title: Victor Pool Table
  • Author:
  • Published: 1/11/2007 8:20:53 AM