We need another billiard movie!
11/6/2008 8:44:33 AM
We need another billiard movie!
As many of you know our billiard industry and indeed our sport has had its peaks and valleys.
I have looked all over the net to understand the reason our sport has so much fluctuation. The best I can figure is that our amateur players and casual players are spawned by movies such as the Hustler and the Color of Money.
So in the interest of getting our sport moving again I thought I would go looking for possible material for a new movie.
The best candidate so far has to be the book Running the Table: The Legend of Kid Delicious, the Last Great American Pool Hustler. I believe it has a story that lends itself well to the big screen and isn't a rehash of the existing billiard movies.
Now all we need to do is get some interest in making it into a movie. That is the hard part.
For those of you with some free time and interest, read the book and let me know what your thoughts are.
Would you go see it at the theater?
We need another billiard movie!
Replies & Comments
billiardsforum on 11/6/2008 10:38:08 AMWell I agree. I have been following the production (or non-production) of 9 Ball. I have a letter from the producer which I have not published yet. It basically says they are canceling it because of lack of support from sponsors and fans.
Here is a portion of that text. It is an open letter from Anthony Palma, the writer of what looked to be a promising new "billiard film":
"I thought before I started writing the screenplay for "9-Ball" that it would be a movie that the public, and billiard community would love. I have discovered after 2 years that the billiard community has no interest in supporting the small budget production of a very exciting, unique pool movie that has great pool players in it. "9- Ball" shows the determination, and drive necessary for a young woman pool to have in order to become a champion.
He goes on to say that he just does not understand why the billiard community is not embracing the film:
"I spent hundreds of hours in crafting a wonderful pool movie that the fans can't wait to see, but the pool industry except for a couple of companies has ignored our requests for minimal financial support for a movie that would only help the languishing pool business. I don't understand it."
I am happy to forward back any comments.
dlabout on 11/6/2008 12:17:18 PM
Why doesn't he do an "Obama" and put up a web site for individual contributors? I would think that if the opportunity is available the public could help them get the movie made.
At least if I donate to this kind of cause I'm going to get more than the "Vote for me cause the other guy sucks" advertising.
quickshot on 11/6/2008 1:17:59 PMIf you ask 100 people what they think of billiards 90% of them will say "what's that?" If you ask the same people what they think of pool, they will say "isn't that the game they play in bars?"
And therein lies the tainted perception of the sport. In my opinion it will take a lot more than a movie to kick start the sport. Billiard and pool parlors are slowly disappearing because of lack of attendance.
The bigger question is "Why?" But I do not have the answer.
Mitch Alsup on 11/6/2008 1:42:41 PM
One side effect of the burdgening movie industry is that there is no venue for a film that intrests only a small minority of people in the community.
30 years ago, a movie would come out and would play in the same theater for 4-6 weeks, until the audience was down to 2-3 dozen patrons/show. Now if a theater is not 1/2-3/4 full or more, the film is cut the next day.
I, myself, do not go to films unless I can sit away from others, so the effect is that I seldom go to any films (averaging less than 1 per year). Thus, there is no time I can go to a film I "sort of" want to see with "my seating priority" manifest.
Would I like to see a pool/billiards film--sure. But similar to the great movies of the past I want to also see the grind and hardship behind the glory, and not just the personalities and play itself.
I think that if the movie can't be made efficiently through private funding then couldn't it be done direct to video? The overhead is lower and would allow for production to proceed without the big studios.
I don't believe this project is impossible. My motorcycle racing organization with the help of other racing organizations raised enough cash to get a private track built here in Denver to the tune of 3 million dollars.
If that can be done then so can a movie.
- quickshot on 11/6/2008 4:40:11 PM
I, like Mitch, am not a movie goer for some of the same reasons he has and then some. I honestly believe that most of the movies made today are already printed to DVD before the movie even comes out. It's how the industry survives to some degree. I also see your private track being around for many years much as the Tacoma racing site in Washington. My granddaughters still race on it and they have been using it for 20 years now. The point I'm making here, is that one generation grows up with the preceding generation and the interest in the sport is handed down and then absorbed by the younger generation. This goes for little league, football, soccer etc.
In the billiards and pool world there is no such foundation of parents to children. At least not enough to keep the sport alive like other sports. There is some ingredient missing. I believe that many people do not see billiards and pool as a sport. I sometimes wonder how it is in other countries?
And, I ask all you out there: How many of your parents ever set foot in a pool hall?
GOOD Point! I don't think my mother or father ever set foot in a pool hall. At least not while I was around. My mother did support me playing by running me to tournaments and helping me with entry fees.
We have Laura Smith here in Colorado trying to remedy just this problem through the Billiard Education Foundation. Laura and others have developed a curiculum and lesson plans to bring billiards into schools much the way bowling is offered today to high school kids. Her dedication and support from the industry is opening the world of billiards to a generation that may not know the joys of the game.
I think we could all do a better job of helping to bring billiards to the younger people. I've played with 2 junior national champions in my day. They both started with a basic interest and I helped with their game play until they couldn't learn anything more from me. But beyond the kids that already enjoy the game, we need to spark the interest in others. In this day and age it is as simple as providing them a place to play and letting them know it is available to them. Some ideas might be contacting a local boy scout troop master or church youth group and see if they would interested in having a billiard day. Set up a junior pool league in your area.
In my younger days the struggle was finding a place to play. I would practice every day at the local Holiday Inn because the maintenance man was our neighbor. Had it not been for him I might not have gotten hooked.
-Doug
- billiardsforum on 11/7/2008 6:47:58 AM
Let me pose this question...is the BCA doing enough, or doing the right things to promote the sport in the USA?
They are the leading association, and they claim to be doing things to "grow the sport" - do you guys feel that they are accomplishing this? If not, what more can be done?
(When thinking about this question, think about what the leading associations for OTHER popular sports do. NHL, MLB, NFL, and so on. Nascar even. They do a lot. Yes, they commercialize thier respective sport, but hey, it gets that sport where it needs to be, right?
- quickshot on 11/8/2008 5:09:43 PM
Therein lies the big question. In my opinion a resounding NO. Between the BCA and the APA their must be 1/2 million members. And, both leagues are into their own little thing. Competing between themselves. Or that's the way it seems.
And then throw in the WPA who has its own agenda and we have organized chaos as far as unifying and solidifying any aspect of the sport. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the only way the billiards and pool sport will ever prosper and survive is to have one umbrella organization as a ruling and governing body much like the the NBA, MLB, NFL and the PGA.
ESPN gives a token coverage and ESPNC will show an hour a day. The production in my eyes looks like a throw together one that follows beach volley ball and precedes a bowling show. And some of the tournaments are from past archives. I watched one today, and they showed quick clips of the first, I believe, 7 games. For a while there I was not even sure what was happening, so I can imagine what the causal channel surfer thought. The whole billiards/pool arena is in a rip tide and slowly drowning.
Hey QS, Just a quick follow up to the end of this conversation. I sent an e-mail to the BCA discussing this very topic. I am interested in hearing any ideas that our members here may have. I will start a new thread for that discussion.
-Doug
- quickshot on 12/3/2008 12:50:22 PM
The big problem is that none of them wants to give up and share their turf. They all have their own agenda and that's what they live by. And somewhere in the future will die by. If the powers to be have not realized it by now I don't think they ever will. United they can stand and divided fall.
As I mentioned once before, the sport is in a rip tide.
Justanotherevolutionary on 12/3/2008 7:13:44 PMI myself like pool for it's discreetness. Pool is more than a game. Similar to golf, it can be relaxing if you let it. I'm not gonna get all spiritual and weird on yall but there is a certain...calm and release, that can be felt while playing pool. This maybe more rare in bar pool obviously because of the rather active and sometimes uncomfortable environment. As for the movie I guess I would have to see it before I could accurately judge it. In my opinion I guess a movie like 9 Ball would be "fun" for us already into billiards but I can't really see it inspiring anyone to play pool. Of course if it's highly funded with stars and glamour and a touching, dramatic story line than some idiots might eat it up. But I don't think we need that. I don't think pool needs anyhting. No movies strictly based on pool for sure. But I could see spending hours infront of my tv playing pool on Xbox360 and winning one 9 ball tournament after another for fictional money! Why try to play like Alison Fisher when you can just be her!
- quickshot on 12/3/2008 8:42:16 PM
I heard that the 9 ball movie has been scrapped for lack of funding, and I can understand why. Limited audience. A movie about billiards is like putting a band aid on a ruptured artery. It will not stop the bleeding. Every time you see billiard on ESPN it is in a Gambling Casino. Not exactly a wholesome environment from a family perspective. I do not have the answer for the lack of interest in the sport. Nor, does it seem, has anyone else.
- Justanotherevolutionary on 12/3/2008 10:48:43 PM
Good point there, about the venues these pros play in...I don't know if they are getting ready to do trick shot magic or slaughter cows half the time. It looked like the recent speed pool challenege was being played in the middle of the local mall. That does need to change. Pros and ams deserve better than that. I would like to see pool played outdoors sometime. Maybe some rain and wind....You know, like slow greens on a golf course? =) but seriously I think some outdoor stadium pool tournament would be rather neat and definately more inviting to watch. Maybe we could get John madden to commentate? Ok, I'll stop now.
- billiardsforum on 12/11/2008 10:06:42 PM
I 100% agree with the last few posts. Call me a sellout, but seriously, Billiards needs some marketing finesse. (And I will argue to the death that pushing billiards into the "mainstream" is ultimately good for the industry, and more importantly, the players. Movies are just one part of the marketing machine. I think live events are important, as are billiard exhibitions by today's "professionals". Part of being a professional is actually promoting the sport. Just like any other profession, you are only as valuable as the value that you create. Blah blah blah, that's my rant for the night.
Oh, and I guess I'll also take this opportunity to point out that there are about 30 billiard related movies available. The latest billiard movie I believe is Turn the River.
Oh and guys, there is a very beautiful actress in that one, buy the way.
- Justanotherevolutionary on 12/17/2008 7:43:02 AM
Maybe I'm missing something here, but why do the vast majority of people want the industry to explode and the game to go mainstream? Anyways I was watching ESPN 9 ball semi-finals yesterday, and this APA league director in Florida said he has seen over 100 new teams spring up in the local area just the last year...figure like 8 people a team, that's a lot players. So for all you who want to see billiards "make it big" just hold tight. It's on the brink of becoming wide spread and popular. Call this a prediction or prophecy but within 2 years it will be bigger than you could have ever imagined. Now in my opinion this is NOT GOOD. As history clearly shows, where more people go and the things more people do always end up worse than if it would have been left alone. People suck and everything they touch turns to $#!^ Look at golf, prices have gone through the roof, tee times are more difficult to get, the equipment is completly different, always having to wait on people and dodge balls while playing. People who have no respect for the game just out to drink $5.00 beer with 5 other fools and make my time miserable. Fortunatly I've learned to keep my head down ignore pretty much everything around me. (not just with golf either) hehe So if anyone can answer the question I first asked in this post, please indulge us. You see, the sad truth is business is business and business means money. Money corrupts and destroys. Scenario: pool goes big. Local billiard halls see more traffic...prices go up, billiard hall makes more money. Billiard hall uses money, adds 1 new table to accomodate 100 new players, the rest goes in pockets. I don't mean table pockets either. Billiard hall starts selling alcohol, ok might as well go back to bar pool. Oh but wait bar pool $1 a game now. And it's always packed! Bar buys new big screen TV, and a new felt brush for the tables! OH BOY! Meanwhile there is 2 balls missing and a 6 inch tear in the felt, but we can play around that. New billiard hall springs up! Unfortunately it will be closed down by the time I get a table. Cues increase in price and are now made out of pine trees! Rules and regulations change you are now allowed to use a 36 oz break cue with a 20mm tip! Maybe we can get some GPS tracking balls and pockets too. So now I've gotten a little carried away. But seriously if pool goes "mainstream" it gets taken over by money hungry bitches and we all end up suffering for it. It happens all the time.
Hey Justanother, I have been playing pool since 1975 as a young boy. In my later years it was in California, Texas, and around the world in the Marine Corps. I think the reason I long for pool to become more mainstream is because of the slump of the game since the mid 90s. The height of the game was from the Color of Money and people from all walks became interested in the game I love. We had pool halls that were full through out the week with league players and tournaments. Since then I have seen most of those pool halls close. The tournaments are few and far between and even finding a game these days is getting harder. Here in Denver I have seen at least a half dozen pool halls close and watched even the APA struggle with a lack of teams. Some of that is due to poor management of the APA here locally and also the nature of the APA. The APA is designed for you to improve and then your handicap goes up and the team must break up and bring on new players to stay under the 23 rule. Once you reach a 6 or 7 in the APA it is hard to put together a leagal team. I still enjoy leagues because it gives me an opportunity to play with some of the local players, but without some growth in billiards even those numbers are shrinking. In 1995 Denver hosted the WPBA and the venue was full. Today the WPBA wouldn't dream of coming here. Maybe the coasts have managed to improve their playing public but we have lost a great many here.
-Doug
- billiardsforum on 12/17/2008 8:54:55 AM
Thats a very good point, and I totally agree with the benefits of having a clam, non-busy, pool-only billiard room, but I guess the point is that we've seen time and time again that most halls like this simply can't survive. I'd love the whole pool hall to myself ever time, and I'd love it if they would replace the balls and cues ever 6 months, but the bottom line is that I'm unwilling to spend the table fees that would be required to make that financially feasible.
So what I'm saying is that I think there needs to be a happy medium. It is widely accepted that two billiard movies single-handedly drove the "boom" in billiard in America. To quote a blurb from the BCA's web site:
Billiards was revived by two events, one in 1961, the other in 1986. The first was the release of the movie, “The Hustler”, based on the novel by Walter Tevis. The film depicted the dark life of a pool hustler with Paul Newman in the title role. New rooms opened all over the country and for the remainder of the 60’s pool flourished, until social concerns, the Vietnam War, and an increase in outdoor activities led to a decline in the game. In 1986, “The Color of Money”, the sequel to “The Hustler” with Paul Newman in the same role and Tom Cruise as an up-and-coming professional, brought the excitement of pool to a new generation. The opening of upscale rooms catered to a new type of player, whose senses may have been offended by the old cliché of poolrooms.
So we don't need some sappy love story or anything, just a movie that shows more people how awesome pool can be, and that, through good directing and screenplay, effectively communicates how cool it feels to win a game of pool to those who don't play.
Hey Justanother, I have been playing pool since 1975 as a young boy. In my later years it was in California, Texas, and around the world in the Marine Corps. I think the reason I long for pool to become more mainstream is because of the slump of the game since the mid 90s. The height of the game was from the Color of Money and people from all walks became interested in the game I love. We had pool halls that were full through out the week with league players and tournaments. Since then I have seen most of those pool halls close. The tournaments are few and far between and even finding a game these days is getting harder. Here in Denver I have seen at least a half dozen pool halls close and watched even the APA struggle with a lack of teams. Some of that is due to poor management of the APA here locally and also the nature of the APA. The APA is designed for you to improve and then your handicap goes up and the team must break up and bring on new players to stay under the 23 rule. Once you reach a 6 or 7 in the APA it is hard to put together a leagal team. I still enjoy leagues because it gives me an opportunity to play with some of the local players, but without some growth in billiards even those numbers are shrinking. In 1995 Denver hosted the WPBA and the venue was full. Today the WPBA wouldn't dream of coming here. Maybe the coasts have managed to improve their playing public but we have lost a great many here.
-Doug
- billiardsforum on 12/17/2008 8:56:27 AM
Hahaha, Doug I think we typed our replies and hit "submit" at the same time! Looks like we both are on the same page there.
- quickshot on 12/17/2008 10:12:53 AM
Very profound statement. The billiard powers to be should sit up and take a note.
- Justanotherevolutionary on 12/17/2008 4:38:05 PM
Well I would like to say that I'm only 27 and been playing for about 8 months. So maybe I'm looking at it from the outside-in. My opinion and outlook may change over time. I play on the APA league and am sad to say that most players spend more time drinking and bsing than focusing on the task at hand. I guess I just don't want to see people playing pool in the name of popularity or because it's a "fad". It starts to lose everything it ever was, in that case. I mean to me pool is more of a sophisticated, and intellectual challenge of experience and skill. Not the latest box office hit. I'm not trying to start a cult, everyone has the right and is more than invited to play these games, I just think the hard core players that really respect and love this game are the ones who hang around when the scene drops. Those are the players I want to play.
- quickshot on 12/17/2008 5:59:36 PM
I have read so much rhetoric both here and in other areas in this site plus other forums it is beginning to sound like wasted words. I think we have two different areas with similar themes. Truth be told there is nothing we can do about the sad state of the sport as it exist today. And there are reasons: (1) We are spread out over 3 or 4, 000 miles with no in person contact, (2) We can never form a cohesive organization and even if we could where would the operational financing come from, (3) Where would the legal expertise come from? etc., etc. The whole bottom line, if it were feasible,it would involve bucking the BCA, APA and the rest of the powers. This will never happen.
The way to get new blood in the sport is the same way the bowling industry and other sports do it. Establish a chain of billiard halls, clean, smoke free, bar free, well lighted, no drugs and no trash. Then go to the schools and try to talk them into recruiting teams (with parents' permission) that may be interested in learning how to play the game. Set an age of 16 to be able to participate. Once you have enough teams they can form a junior league playing against each others schools at different halls. A junior league can be attached to the APA at reduced rates and it it will be the foundation for future champs. It would also be a great thing for the students that are not into the physical sports. The pool halls can block out a time for play much like tee times in golf.
Lets face it, a lot can be done if the money people want to do it. Right now I think they all have one thought...let the other guy do it. That's why it is dying. We do not have any futuristic top dogs with a vision.
Oh well, at least my typing is getting better.
Quickshot, Great minds think a like. Laura Smith has established the Junior national championships and is working with Dawn Hopkins on the Billiard Education Foundation http://www.billiardeducation.org . I am working with Laura, who is a pro who came from my local pool hall, to help get billiards in the schools. The hardest part is finding room owners and teachers willing to dedicate the time to teach pool. I am also trying to find a college site that has at least 14 nine foot tables for the Junior nationals next year.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, -Doug Labout
- quickshot on 12/18/2008 7:33:12 AM
How about finding one of the billiard halls that may have the required tables. if the owners of the pool halls can;t see the future in what you are trying to do, there is something wrong with their vision. If a place does not have that many tables maybe you can make it like a 3 day thing. That is guaranteed income for the owner. I can't see how he could pass it up. That org sounds like a great idea. Good luck with it. I'll check out the site.
AusPool on 1/19/2009 7:54:37 AM
RE: Billiards Movies
The best movie ever - Pool Hall Junkies....HANDS DOWN!
corridor.leagues on 8/22/2009 8:30:37 PM
Hi Doug, If you are seriously thinking about a new pool movie, we need to talk. I've got a killer screenplay almost complete. Let's do it right this time. Kerry corridor.leagues@yahoo.com
jana on 10/26/2009 5:51:01 PMWell, here's that "9 Ball The Movie" first trailer preview. it's basically just a short preview from the first 3 days of shooting.
We need another billiard movie!
- Title: We need another billiard movie!
- Author: dlabout (Doug Labout)
- Published: 11/6/2008 8:44:33 AM
