Identify Pool Cue from 1967
1/20/2019 11:19:30 AM
Identify Pool Cue from 1967
Would someone kindly identify my pool cue?
I acquired it in 1967 at Cue Time in Lodi, New Jersey.
Identify Pool Cue from 1967
Replies & Comments
Chopdoc on 1/21/2019 10:23:48 AMMy first thought is Valley.
Is the bumper original?
Can we get detailed pics of the joint pin and shaft joint face?
Lawrence Wolven on 1/21/2019 9:12:40 PM
The bumper was installed about 25 years ago. I'll have to take pictures of the joint pin & shaft joint face.
- Chopdoc on 1/22/2019 4:52:18 AM
Since bumper is not original, I will change my guess from Valley to "I don't know".
Need to see more detailed pics. Also need to see under the bumper please.
I'll send more pictures however, I'm not removing the bumper. Don't want to damage the Cue. Someone once told me it looks like a Palmer. Any thoughts?
UPDATE: Here are the photos requested of the joint pin and shaft joint face. I believe they are all brass:
- Chopdoc on 1/22/2019 5:34:23 PM
Superficially resembles a Palmer, like a third catalog model 4, but the joint rings are wrong and the joint pilot on the shaft is definitely not Palmer. It also superficially resembles a first catalog model 1. But again, the pilot is definitely wrong, and the butt cap is wrong. The joint rings are similar.
What is under that bumper could go a long way toward identifying the cue. The presence of a weight bolt and type of weight bolt.
If the cue was drilled and tapped to add that bumper it was already "damaged".
I do have a question on what I do see though. Is the shaft insert (the part that the butt screws into) brass or aluminum? I can't tell from the picture and it is important.
If I remember correctly, the bumper was inserted without being drilled and tapped.
The shaft insert is brass.
Could this cue be a Palmer cue from the 2nd Catalog? Perhaps models A or B?
I appreciate all of your efforts on this matter, thank you.
- Chopdoc on 1/22/2019 10:55:17 PM
That's Model 1, "Palmer Custom", and Model 2 "Palmer Limited" I am guessing you mean. There was no A and B in that catalog. The A and B in the catalog refers to the cue cases.
It does have resemblance to a Palmer Model 1, but the butt sleeve rings are different, the butt cap is different, and again, the joint pilot is definitely wrong.
If it had an aluminum pilot I was going to guess it might be a National cue.
As it stands, I am not sure what it is, but so far it does not look like a Palmer to me.
WOW. Again, thank you for the information.
I have never heard of a National cue. Are they still being made?
- Chopdoc on 1/23/2019 9:54:07 AM
National was around for decades. You heard of National chalk I bet. NTC, National Tournament Chalk.
Several notable cue makers started at National. Ricco Cervantes, Bob Meucci, and others.
At a certain point they shut down cue making and began importing cues from Asia.
The original US made National cues were notable for having an aluminum joint insert.
Cervantes went on to Gandy where you can see the continuation of the aluminum insert until later when the Gandy cues were made by Viking.
They are no longer around.
I collect cues of that lineage, National and Gandy. I am always researching their history.
I also have several Palmers, among many other cues.
Well thank you again. This is certainly a mystery cue.
Perhaps some other B.F. readers will weigh in on this?
I'll let my grandson figure it out when I leave it to him.
- Chopdoc on 1/23/2019 1:58:12 PM
It is an interesting cue. We may yet nail it down.
Highly unlikely it is very valuable.
Personally I believe it was made from a house cue. The only real value it has is for me, over 50 years, is that it is still a beautiful cue.
Type79 on 2/6/2019 10:28:00 AMInteresting cue. It would be nice to see some clear pics of the back end and of the weight bolt as @Chopdoc recommended. Also helpful would be a measurement of the height of the butt cap. If you examine the joint, look to see if it is pinned. If it is there would be a brass pin appearing as a circle in the side of the brass joint.
This does look very much like a Palmer Model 1 from the so-called First Catalog but there is nothing to push me over the edge to believe it is. There were many cue makers in the 1960s building cues of this style. Many Model 1 Palmers were made with different ring configurations. I own at least four with dissimilar numbers of rings and ring widths.
I just saw your statement that you do not want to remove the bumper, but honestly, many cues of that era never had bumpers. I've removed a number from Palmer cues without damaging the butt caps.
@Type79 - Originally this cue did not have a bumper. It was suggested to install one when I had it reconditioned about 25 years ago. Perhaps you can give me some guidance on how to remove the bumper?
Thanks for your comments and suggestion.
- Type79 on 2/6/2019 11:41:46 AM
If it's glued, just slice it off. Not being original to the cue, you could always get another bumper and glue it on if it's your desire to keep a bumper on the cue.
@Type79 - The joint is not pinned.
I tried taking the bumper off. It kept turning and turning. It gets loose but doesn't disconnect. I then tightened it back.
If I remember correctly, there is a steel bolt with a flat head inside and a straight slot for a screwdriver.
Hope this information helps.
- Type79 on 2/8/2019 10:51:48 AM
Some information that would be helpful is:
- seeing the bottom of the butt cap and weight bolt,
- a clear picture of the rings in the back-end,
- measurements of the plastic rings, and
- measurement of the length of the butt cap.
The weight bolt might not identify what it is, but could be enough to rule-out one or more cue brands or cue makers.
A clear picture of the rings and their measurements would allow me to compare the size of your rings to those in my own cues of that period.
Finally, when you bought this in 1967, was it new or used?
@Type79 - I will try to send pictures of what you need as well as the measurements requested.
As for when I acquired this cue, well lets just say the person I was playing at the time could not compensate me as agreed, so he decided it was in his best interest let me hold his pool cue and cue case until he came back with my winnings. Fortunately for me, he never returned.
So I have to say it was used at least once.
Thanks again for taking an interest in my cue. In looking at some Palmer cue catalogs, I believe you're on to something in narrowing down who made my cue.
- Type79 on 2/24/2020 4:14:04 PM
Any updates on this cue. If you still own it and have any interest in selling it, please contact me at jfishbein@snet.net
Thanks
No updates, however my Grandson is now interested in Pool. It will be left to him someday. Thanks for the interest. If you're ever in the Barnegat, NJ area, give me a shout and you can look at it.
Identify Pool Cue from 1967
- Title: Identify Pool Cue from 1967
- Author: Lawrence Wolven
- Published: 1/20/2019 11:19:30 AM
- Last Updated: 1/21/2019 2:10:42 AM
- Last Updated By: billiardsforum (Billiards Forum)
