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Jumping and Masse Shots in 8 Ball?

4/17/2008 5:51:43 PM

Jumping and Masse Shots in 8 Ball?

The technique to perform jump shots and the technique to perform masse shots look very similar when I see instructional videos on how to perform each.

What are the subtleties that allow you to jump the ball versus masse the ball?

I don't think I'm doing it correctly.

Jumping and Masse Shots in 8 Ball?

Replies & Comments
  1. cademfjohnsonFenwick on 4/18/2008 12:22:20 PM

    I can't help with the true jump shot; never use it. Grew up using the scoop jump. Where I play both shots are not allowed without the owners permission. In league play both are outlawed. Before attempting the Masse' or the Jump shots get a extra piece of table cloth, place the Cue ball on it to protect the table surface during practice. I think the Masse' can best be seen curving taking a shot longer then 3 feet. Your adding side spin from the top of the ball using a elevated open bridge at I am guessing 60-75 degrees forward, down and again on the side of the ball. You knew that. Might be one of the few times you jab the ball and don't want the Cue shaft in place after the shot. Start out softly and don't try to make a hole in the table. I don't think there is anything subtle about a jump shot. Not the final word meaning I'm not the Wizard here.

  2. cademfjohnsonbilliardsforum on 4/18/2008 1:09:25 PM

    I believe the essence of the true jump shot is the angle and swiftness of the stroke. Back hand up high, cue tip aimed just above the equator of the cue ball, and a nice quick stiff shot. This "jams" the cue ball down into the cloth. (versus the scoop under and lift) This compresses the cloth, and "squeezes" the cue ball outward (and hopefully upward) from out of the grip of the cue tip (top) and cloth. (bottom)

    Hope this helps. (As with Fenwick, this is my own interpretation and way of doing it, and not necessarily "the" way)

  3. cademfjohnsonquickshot on 4/18/2008 6:31:36 PM

    Hmm Hmm.....Compression and decompression. Is the felt that thick that it can launch a cue ball into the air? I guess it is as good a theory as any. I would like to hear the opinion of a dyed-in-the-wool engineer on this theory before I totally agree with it. Or for the matter, disagree. I mean, I'm thinking a high launch like the pro(s) do it. I'm not talking Masse here.

    / / / / / / / / / / / > > o---------------------------->>>>>>>>oooooo

    I'm not a good artist either.

  4. cademfjohnsonbilliardsforum on 4/18/2008 6:37:06 PM

    Okay okay - I guess with a drawing like that I was asking for someone to poke fun!. For those who want a "better look" at my theory in action:

    Courtesy of Dr. Dave. I may not have a PhD but he does.

  5. cademfjohnsonquickshot on 4/18/2008 10:01:48 PM

    Well for me the jury is still out, but I do appreciate the "you tube" show. The masse clip was great. Your art work was better than mine though.

  6. cademfjohnsonMitch Alsup on 4/22/2008 7:28:45 PM

    I do not believe that the cloth has much to do with the physics of getting the ball airborne, it does play a part in holding the ball stationary as the other physics play themselves out.

    I believe that the slate is deformed/compressed (in a wave-like fassion) absorbing the energy imparted on the ball, and then the slate reflects this energy back upon the ball that has not yet moved, throwing it into the air. Like a trampoline/drum-head but with multi-microsecond timing.

    The cue tip must move out of the way by means of shaft deflection for the cue to launch correctly.

    On a related but different topic: masse;

    I use a curve ball about 3 times a night, this is a masse excepting that the curve of the cue is very slight (invariably less than a balls width) and the deflection takes place over several feet, so its more like using spin on a bolling ball than one of the movie masse shots. Are these still illegal in places that ban masse shots? They look more like a shot with (side) englich and just a little rise of the cut but to cause/control the amount of movement (angular) and when it takes place (near or far). And as I shoot them, then are no harder on the cloth and moderate follow or draw.

  7. cademfjohnsonguest on 4/22/2008 7:46:05 PM

    So than the key to the jump shot it a swift, firm shot with a VERY fast cue stick retraction.

  8. cademfjohnsonFenwick on 4/22/2008 10:18:37 PM

    Mitch Alsup, " I use a curve ball about 3 times a night, this is a masse excepting that the curve of the cue is very slight (invariably less than a balls width) and the deflection takes place over several feet, so its more like using spin on a bowling ball than one of the movie masse shots. Are these still illegal in places that ban masse shots? "

    I use the same shot often playing straight pool as do my opponents. If it has not been spelled out and the house has not called you on it I think its a fair shot. The first night of 8 ball league it was clearly stated neither shot was allowed. I don't play any 8 ball at this time. As you know you can get a curve shot over a small or long distance just by using side spin. These outlawed shots, IMO are due to certain players going for the gusto and making holes in the playing surface cloth and sending the cue ball flying off the table.

    guest, "So than the key to the jump shot it a swift, firm shot with a VERY fast cue stick retraction." I have seen it done both ways depending on distance between C.B. and O.B. Please tell us what works when you have mastered the shot so us non jumpers know the answer.

  9. cademfjohnsonquickshot on 4/22/2008 10:38:13 PM

    I have to agree with Mitch here. We have the CB (a moveable object) in a sense trying to penetrate and unmovable object (the slate) and as the slate decompresses it causes the CB to retract into the air. I believe the felt is not a cushion but just something that provides a space for the CB to travel on its way to the slate.

  10. cademfjohnsonMitch Alsup on 4/23/2008 2:57:48 PM

    It is my belief that the cue deflects out of the way (shaft bends as tip strikes the cue) and does not have time to un-deflect by the time the slate is throwing the cue into the air. A hard tip helps the cue shaft deflect out of the way. And I believe this because I don't think human muscles can go from driving the cue-stick forward to retracting it as fast as the slate reflects the imparted energy.

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Jumping and Masse Shots in 8 Ball?

  • Title: Jumping and Masse Shots in 8 Ball?
  • Author: (Cade Johnson)
  • Published: 4/17/2008 5:51:43 PM