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Does Side Spin Transfer from the Cue Ball to the Object Ball?

1/6/2022 3:55:21 PM

Does Side Spin Transfer from the Cue Ball to the Object Ball?

Imagine that I am shooting at the 1 ball. I am aware of the following:

  • Upon contact with the object ball, the cue ball will naturally follow the tangent line to the left or right.
  • If I strike the cue ball with side spin, the path of the cue ball will change after contact with the object ball.

But I am unsure of whether the side spin on the cue ball will transfer to the object ball.

So, let's say that all of the following remain constant:

  • the amount of side spin,
  • the strength of shot,
  • the exact location within the pocket at which I am shooting the 1 ball

Given that, will the sidespin on the cue ball transfer to the object ball it strikes? If so, how much will transfer?

I was once told that English will transfer and reverse direction upon contact with an object ball. Is this true?

Thanks for your help.

Does Side Spin Transfer from the Cue Ball to the Object Ball?

Replies & Comments
  1. user1641513320RayMills on 1/6/2022 4:48:28 PM

    I am by no means a proficient shooter, but I have recently discussed this with YouTube experts Dr.Dave and FXBilliards.

    My favorite author, Robert Byrne, states in his books that sidespin transfer from the cue ball to the object ball was negligible, and I believed him. I have never really incorporated it into my game because I felt the "gear effect" was so slight because the billiard balls are so hard. "Throw" is more noticeable. However, I believe Byrne changed his position on this in his later books.

    Especially when you consider that experts need to know all about our pastime and presumably should be excellent-enough cueists to advise the masses, the negligibility of the transfer must be addressed.

    Dr.Dave has high-quality slow-motion video that proves that sidespin on the cue ball will indeed transfer and cause the object ball to spin, even if only for one-half rotation over a 2-foot distance away from the cue ball.

    Bryan from FXBilliards will show you in videos that this spin can indeed make a certain shot possible when no other methods offer a reasonable percentage chance of pocketing the ball. This is usually because that small rotation has more impact on what the object ball will do after it bounces off of a cushion, mostly during a bank shot.

    I won't be trying to embed this gear effect into my shots, especially in 8-ball, because I am not good enough yet to counteract how off-center cueing spoils my fundamental shooting. Until then, I will select different shot strategies, including defensive shots, which can win the game for me anyway. I don't play for the memorable miracle shots—I play for the win.

    That said, I don't think sidespin changes the path of a cue ball as much as top- or bottom-spin (except for deflection).

  2. user1641513320Sifu on 10/19/2024 6:16:29 PM

    The short answer is yes.

    The long answer, as RayMills indicated, is "how much"?

    How much also depends on a number of factors such as how much English on the cue, how fast, rails, etc. For instance, we often mentally associate "more" with "harder". However, when it comes to spin in billiards, a harder hit reduces the contact time between the balls so it will lessen the spin transfer and/or throw. A softer hit will throw more.

    Personally, at a Fargo 345/APA 5 (don't ask me how that happens), the only way I really think about or use it is shots when the ball is frozen on the rail and very rarely, throw on a ball frozen to another ball where throw can be just enough to make an otherwise unmakeable shot. The problem with that, is since you have to shoot softer, this often means sacrificing shape for the next shot, so I've only used it a few times for an 8 ball or rarely where I have a "safety" ball without moving the cue after the shot.

    And yes, it does reverse for each ball in the chain of contact. If the ball is frozen on the left rail, right spin MIGHT help it run smoothly down the rail. If you want right spin on the object ball, you would need left spin on the cue ball. "Right goes left" and "Left goes right". If the 1 ball is frozen to the 2, and both are frozen on the left rail, you have to add one more revesrse. Right spin on the cue will transfer left spin to the 1, which will transfer right spin to the 2. However, each ball in the contact chain will lessen the amount transferred, so the 2 is actually unlikely to get much, if any, real effect from the spin.

    I use this example of a ball on the rail, because also like RayMills said, just shooting down the table, the amount of spin transferred is unlikely to change the trajectory of the shot due to just the spin if the only friction is the flat of the table. By adding the contact to the rail, you now have two points of friction and the spin can have more impact on actual trajectory.

    To get even deeper, the cloth "felt vs simonis", the condition of the cloth, and even things like humidity, can change how much effect this actually has. For 99% of the time, you probably don't need to worry about it.

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Does Side Spin Transfer from the Cue Ball to the Object Ball?

  • Title: Does Side Spin Transfer from the Cue Ball to the Object Ball?
  • Author:
  • Published: 1/6/2022 3:55:21 PM
  • Last Updated: 1/14/2022 3:56:03 AM
  • Last Updated By: billiardsforum (Billiards Forum)