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Table Fouls and "Ball-in-Kitchen" vs. "Ball-in-Hand"

11/9/2020 3:48:00 PM

Table Fouls and "Ball-in-Kitchen" vs. "Ball-in-Hand"

Does anyone know how table fouls are determined during a game of 8-ball game that uses "ball-in-kitchen"?

Contemporary "bar rules" don't even acknowledge table fouls, but...

Did traditional 8 ball require "rail-after-contact" for safeties, and award the opponent cue ball behind the line on all fouls?

BIH is better because it simplifies the game while keeping it fair and interesting.

If someone wants to play "bar rules" they usually don't even require hitting one of your object balls first for a legal shot, and when you try to explain the "spotting the object ball for kitchen shot" rules, they don't want to play that way - UNLESS YOU EXPLAIN THE RULE AFTER YOU FOUL AND IT BENEFITS THEM.

I find that's usually the best time to introduce bar players to the spotting rule.

This question relates to the following billiard rules:

Table Fouls and "Ball-in-Kitchen" vs. "Ball-in-Hand"

Replies & Comments
  1. PendeltonJBadgerMitch Alsup on 11/9/2020 5:24:43 PM

    Ball-in-kitchen rules have two main flavors:

    1. Mandatory Ball-in-Kitchen - Where a foul always results in ball-in-kitchen.
    2. Optional Ball-in-Kitchen - Where a foul gives the incoming player the option of ball-in-kitchen or accepting ball-in-place/ball-on-table. (Notice that BiH rules are always optional - the incoming player has the option of taking BiH, but can also choose to leave the ball where it is on the table.)

    In both flavors above, "cue ball scratches" and "cue ball off of table" are always ball-in-kitchen (no option).

    I think the optional rules are more fair as illustrated above, however, bar-rules are not supposed to be fair, they are supposed to keep the game moving along.

  2. PendeltonJBadgerRayMills on 11/10/2020 12:53:38 AM

    I think "ball-in-hand anywhere on the table (BiH-A) is a wonderfully strict penalty. The only penalty worse would be loss of game, and that's no fun. (Remember, penalizing a player by pocketing an opponent's ball wouldn't always be to the opponent's benefit - and which ball should it be?)

    BiH-A is supposed to afford the opponent the ultimate opportunity for good position, but afterward strategic decisions and shots need to be made most of the time. To stop giving our opponents BIH-A maybe we would learn to stop fouling via low-percentage shots, under-hit safeties, and reckless breaks - although it doesn't seem to naturally teach me to stop scratching off multiple cushions!

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Table Fouls and "Ball-in-Kitchen" vs. "Ball-in-Hand"

  • Title: Table Fouls and "Ball-in-Kitchen" vs. "Ball-in-Hand"
  • Author:
  • Published: 11/9/2020 3:48:00 PM
  • Last Updated: 11/10/2020 4:56:07 AM
  • Last Updated By: billiardsforum (Billiards Forum)