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SPORTSMANSHIP and the rules

4/17/2009 8:20:19 AM

SPORTSMANSHIP and the rules

I currently play in the APA and was wondering what people thought about sportsmanship, the rules, and using everything you can to your advantage. Please chime in on this!

First, the APA states that you should call fouls on yourself and not only if you get caught. Makes sense to me. Then it says that you are allowed to shoot the wrong category of balls and then go back to the right category of balls before the opponent calls a foul on you. Then it says you can even let the other guy keep shooting all of your balls in and then decide to call it a foul and then you get to shoot. OK, so sounds like the rules are at odds with each other.

More to the point of my post is when do you call a foul on someone, when do you warn someone that a foul is about to be committed, etc. Situations are below and also let me know if it matters what is at stake (final championship game), what skill level you are playing against, whether you like/dislike the person/team you are playing, whether that person is handicapped or a cute girl, etc.:

  1. Your opponent is about to shoot the wrong category of balls. Do you warn them that they are about to commit a foul or do you let him commit it first and then call it a foul?

  2. Your opponent is about to shoot the 8 ball in to win the game, yet he still has 2 other balls on the table that are his. Do you warn him? It should have been obvious to him that he needed to make the rest of his balls prior to shooting the 8 ball.

  3. Your opponent is about to shoot a tough shot stretched out and you know that there is a chance he can miss it without using the bridge. Do you offer him the bridge first?

  4. A ball is frozen to a rail, but your opponent doesn't state so. Do you use that to your advantage and just roll the cue ball up against it as a legal shot?

  5. You opponent is about to shoot an obvous scratch shot and/or he is about to shoot the remaining balls in a poor sequence, do you warn him beforehand?

  6. Your opponent is a low skill level and makes a pushshot/double hit, but wasn't trying to do it on purpose. Do you call it a foul?

  7. Your opponent is slightly handicapped and drops a piece of chalk on the table that touches the cue ball. Do you call a foul on him?

I am very curious to see how people answer.

THANK YOU!

This question relates to the following billiard rules:

SPORTSMANSHIP and the rules

Replies & Comments
  1. ddub221Mitch Alsup on 4/17/2009 9:01:52 AM

    1. Your opponent is about to shoot the wrong category of balls. I warn them by sayinig "You are {Stripes, Solids}"

    2. Your opponent is about to shoot the 8 ball in to win the game, yet he still has 2 other balls on the table that are his. I warn him that he still has {Stripes, Solids} left to pot

    3. Your opponent is about to shoot a tough shot stretched out and you know that there is a chance he can miss it without using the bridge. Do you offer him the bridge first? I will inform him that a bridge {short cue, whatever} is available, if hee wants the bridge, I will find it and get it for him.

    4. A ball is frozen to a rail, but your opponent doesn't state so. I will inform the opponent of the potential for fouls. But, realistically, by the time one is playing defense (safeties) one should KNOW the FRIGGEN rules.

    5. You opponent is about to shoot an obvous scratch shot and/or he is about to shoot the remaining balls in a poor sequence, do you warn him beforehand? Depends on the quality of the player. Good players--no, they can use all sorts of english, follow/draw to move the ball away from the scratch. less experienced players, I will inform them of the scratch possibilities--even thou this may be considered coaching. I actively WANT the lower level players to enjoy themselves and get better.

    6. Your opponent is a low skill level and makes a pushshot/double hit, but wasn't trying to do it on purpose. I am generally forgiving about these kinds of shooting issues.

    7. Your opponent is slightly handicapped and drops a piece of chalk on the table that touches the cue ball. I am almost always forgiving of these.

    But really, most of these problems in casual play are caused by the non-shooting player not paying attention to the game. I do call fouls on myself, because it does ME no good to win when I really did not win. I go home and fret about it for days. Thus, the easiest way to deal with it is to be brutially honest with yourself and with your opponent.

  2. ddub221Justanotherevolutionary on 4/17/2009 6:15:55 PM

    I'm the same way, it will bother me to no end, so I refuse to torture myself like that. If nothing else, I play honestly for me.

  3. ddub221ddub221 on 4/18/2009 5:50:09 PM

    Great replies so far. Just to be clear, I am not concerned about calling fouls on yourself, since we should all do that. It is more about whether you warn your opponent that they are about to commit a foul that would in you the game or at least win you ball in hand.

    The rest of the post did talk about some other circumstances where people have been lenient when it comes to calling a foul on someone else due to the person you are playing, their skill, etc.

    Anyway, thanks for the replies and I hope to get more!

  4. ddub221Justanotherevolutionary on 4/19/2009 9:07:52 AM

    Well, one thing I differ a little from Mitch on is, I never warn of an impending scratch shot. (cue ball going in a pocket type of scratch that is) This is just because even on what looks to be a sure scratch can most always be avoided by manipulating the cb with english, or speed. An unnecessary warning could be taken in the wrong manner and seen as a distraction. This could be embarrassing to me and annoying to the opponent. I also find most people don't want, even when meaning well, advice from their opponent. I'm typically ignored lol. I am speaking from a league perspective on this. In a friendly game of shooting around it is, of course, very different.

  5. ddub221billiardsforum on 4/19/2009 9:17:50 AM

    JAR - thats a great observation. There is a fine (very fine) line between helping and just plain distracting (or embarrassing) the other pool player. I had not really looked at it this way before - good insight. When I think about it more, the only time I really ever jump in is when I'm playing casually with my friends over a few drinks, and we get forgetful about which group we're shooting.

  6. ddub221quickshot on 4/20/2009 1:27:15 PM

    The issue here is: are you coaching someone with good intent. Does the opponent realize you are trying to help him develop a higher level game. Is he receptive to your input or silently wishing you would not play his qame. Do you know the person well enough work around the fact that he may be embarrassed about too many intrusions and does not want to say something for fear of an argument?

    There are a lot of variables on this issue. No matter what, when a persons private space is invaded with out a clear understanding of the reason conflict can become a problem.

    Better to not correct unless he is aware of your intent. And then you suggest and offer some basic lessons if the person is known to you.

    This tirade is not directed at any one on this forum. It is just my general observation and opinion (of which I have many).

  7. ddub221ddub221 on 4/20/2009 2:23:53 PM

    OK...keep in mind that this is during COMPETITION!, not a friendly game with a chum. We are talking about a league match or tournament...would you warn someone that they were about to foul on a ball or let them go ahead and do it since you would then get ball in hand? It has to be something obvious like shooting at the 8ball out of turn or shooting at the stripes when they have solids. This is something they should know, but they just weren't thinking and are just about to make a mistake. Telling them won't improve their games in this situation, it will just cause you to lose. But is it better to lose or is it better to win, but you only won because you let the other guy shoot the 8ball in out of turn?

  8. ddub221quickshot on 4/22/2009 9:26:28 AM

    Any person who comes to the competitive table in a league comes with his/her own game. He/she is allowed whatever time outs the competition dictates. He/she is not entitled to coaching during the match. Sportsmanship has nothing to do with it. Sportsmanship only comes in at the end of the match, and that is when the loser is gracious in his/her lost thus acknowledging the winners ability.

  9. ddub221Justanotherevolutionary on 4/22/2009 6:32:27 PM

    Well, if I understand correctly, it is better to lose legitimately rather than win deceitfully. That should sum it up. I think. I don't even know anymore, you're getting ME confused! hehehe I think maybe you are the only one who can truly answer your question ddub. It lies within you and only you to make what YOU feel is the right call or no call.

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SPORTSMANSHIP and the rules

  • Title: SPORTSMANSHIP and the rules
  • Author: (Dan Werner)
  • Published: 4/17/2009 8:20:19 AM