no jump shots and calling the pocket

8/16/2013 1:30:13 PM

no jump shots and calling the pocket

why are there no jump shots allowed but you can buy jump cues also in the rules it says you only have to call the pocket for the black i have played someone who says you have to call the ball and the pocket if the shot is not obvious

does this mean there is more than one set of rules?

can someone please post the different versions of the rules thanks in advance

stevenn21

This question relates to the following billiard rules:

8 Ball Rules

no jump shots and calling the pocket

Replies & Comments

Fenwick on 8/16/2013 4:20:53 PM
It's house rules for the most part. Same can be said for a masse shot.

"_During a match with one of the employees, she played what I considered to be a weak safety. It was easily make-able and can be regarded by most of us as a "routine" jump shot.

I went to my case and began putting my Predator Air jump cue together. She immediately came over and told me that jump shots are not allowed under any circumstances, then she directed me to the sign on the wall. You know the one. It states in no uncertain terms that Jump & masse shots are not allowed, food and drinks are not allowed on the tables, etc._"

stevenn21 on 8/16/2013 10:29:34 PM
No I mean in the rules it says no jump shots:

poolplaying.com/8ballrules.htm

I.E. It is a foul to jump a cue ball over another ball by purposely miscuing it up in the air. Accidental miscuing is not a foul unless other rules in this section are violated.

Zeke on 8/17/2013 7:36:48 AM
Don't bother to explain it. He has no clue.

Never will.

stevenn21 on 8/17/2013 8:03:44 AM
It clearly states that it is a foul in the rules I linked. I am not an idiot and I know what house rules are.

I just want a link to another set of rules where a jump shot is not a foul. I am clearly looking at rules that others are not using.

Fenwick on 8/17/2013 8:56:54 AM
He's right. I have never played APA, nor will I ever.

Fenwick on 8/17/2013 9:42:37 AM
Ask Yoda, a.k.a. Zeke. He knows EVERYTHING!

stevenn21 on 8/17/2013 11:08:29 AM
I have figured it out on my own.

Thanks for nothing. The whole point of a forum is to share ideas and knowledge, so I wonder why you even come on here. Wait, don't answer that. I am not interested.

Mitch Alsup on 8/17/2013 1:06:34 PM
There are legal jumps and illegal jumps. A legal jump requires the cue tip to contact the cue ball above the equator.

The illegal jump hits the cue ball really low. In actuality, this jump is performed by hitting the cue ball at exactly the same time as the other side of the cue tip hits the cloth.

There are legal and illegal massé shots too. It is perfectly legal to hit the CB low and to one side or the other in order to curve the CB around an interfering ball. What is illegal is to strike the CB in such a way the the cue tip contacts the cloth.

I happen to play in a location with one of these signs, they never bother me with my little curve shots.

Zeke on 8/18/2013 6:53:16 AM
I apologize for @Fenwick's rudeness. When he fails to take his meds he gets even more obnoxious.

Mitch always provides accurate answers and this time is no exception.

Fenwick on 8/18/2013 9:23:10 AM
@stevenn21,

The whole point of a forum is to share ideas and knowledge, so I wonder why you even come on here. Wait, don't answer that. I am not interested.

Then why ask?

guest on 8/20/2013 12:37:06 PM
How about we actually answer the man's question. Even if he figured it out for himself and you buffoons were worthless, lets leave the correct answer for future visitors.

The link the Original Poster provided was to a copy of the APA rules. The first thing that must be described is that there are roughly 7 "official" sets of rules, and you must know the ones which you are playing by. Also, there are millions of different sets of "house" or "bar" rules that exist.

Before ever starting a game of pool, specifically 8-ball, it is necessary to figure out the set you are playing by.

The APA is an organization based on the premise of getting more people to play the game of pool, and thus they try to make the rules easy and accessible, even if they aren't the "best" rules for competition. They are also concerned with making sure host bars for their league like there teams and want them to come back.

With this in mind the APA has adopted the common house rule of "no jump shots."

The reasoning is quite simple, a legal jump shot requires striking the cue ball above the equator and driving a hard cue tip straight down, through the ball and into the felt. This very often leaves a mark on the table, and sometimes can do worse, damaging the felt.

Now consider that most bars don't want you do damage their felt, and the APA wants to have bar owners like their teams playing in the bars. Thus, the APA has adopted the rule "no jump shots" to protect the felt of the tables.

Now if you are playing the rules that the professionals play by, jump shots are legal, if performed by striking the cue ball above center and driving down on the ball, causing the ball to bounce off the fabric.

By every set of rules every devised, a "scoop" jump shot where the cue hits the ball on the very bottom, scooping the cue into the air, is illegal. What you are actually doing on that shot is bouncing the cue ball onto the ferrule of the cue stick, rather than the tip. This is illegal every where.

Thus, to protect the tables in the host bars, the APA has outlawed jump shots.

For some perspective, the most professional billiards game in the world, snooker, doesn't allow jump shots at all.

In contrast, the WPA and the BCA, who's rules govern professional events, do allow jump shots, if done correctly.

Here are all the official sets of rules you may commonly come across.
- BCA
- WPA
- BCAPL
- VNEA
- APA
- TAP
- ACS
- UPA
And of course, the millions of variations of house rules. Here is a very detailed description of many different sets of rules and the ways they vary.

Bar Rules / Common House Rules
1. 8 goes in on the break it is a win, but if 8 goes in AND it’s a scratch it is a loss.
2. Table closed on break if a ball is made. (Some bars do play open table though)
3. Called shot, all details must be specified before the shot for player to continue.
4. Only scratches of cue ball off the table result in the cue ball moving, and it only moves to the kitchen (behind the headstring, must be shot forward)
5. Table fouls such as missing everything or hitting the wrong ball first is just loss of turn, cue ball remains in place.
6. Some play 8-Ball neutral, some play it is not.
7. If your only ball left is the 8-ball and you scratch the cue, you lose.
8. If you make the 8 early or in an uncalled pocket, you lose.
9. The 8-ball must often be made “clean” meaning it may not touch any other ball.
BCA and WPA Rules (used by the ACS leagues) http://home.bca-pool.com/associations/7744/files/EightBall_January2008.pdf
1. If the 8 goes in on the break it is not a win or a loss. If the shooter didn’t foul then that player has the choice to spot the 8 and continue with the rest of the balls as are, or rerack and break. If the shooter fouled, the opponent has the same choice, but if leaving the balls in place, gets the ball behind the headstring. All scratches on the break go behind the headstring. This is the only time the cue ball goes to the kitchen in BCA and WPA rules.
2. Table is always open after the break. Any ball may be hit first except the 8.
3. All shots after the break are Called Ball Called Pocket, the details of the shot are not necessary to call, only what ball will go into what pocket. Only one ball a shot may be called. If that ball goes into the correct pocket and no fouls occur the shooter’s turn continues.
4. All scratches and fouls after the break give the incoming player ball-in-hand anywhere on the table.
5. Table Fouls include: Hitting the 8-Ball first when it is not your last ball; hitting your opponent’s ball first; failing to pocket a ball or have any ball reach a rail AFTER contact between cue ball and object ball; missing all the balls entirely; failing to have one foot on the ground during a shot; jumping a ball off the table. Non-shot fouls that are often not used in league play include disturbing balls not the cue ball, receiving coaching.
6. If a player legally strikes the cue ball, contacts a legal object ball first, then has a called ball fall into a called pocket, that shooter’s turn continues if the cue ball and the 8-ball are still on the table. Any other ball to be pocketed stays down and no foul is assessed.
7. If the 8-Ball is still on the table the game continues. Scratches while shooting at the 8 do not end the game.
8. If the 8-ball is pocketed early or in an uncalled pocket, the shooter loses. The 8 must be made as a standalone shot after all of the shooter’s group had been pocketed.
9. The 8 Ball does not need to go into the called pocket clean, but if it goes into an uncalled pocket, the shooter loses.
BCA Pool League Rules that Differ from BCA/WPA
1. A scratch on the break gives ball-in-hand rather than in the kitchen.
VNEA Rules that differ from BCA/WPA rules
1. If an object ball is jumped off the table on the break, it is spotted. Only the 8-Ball is ever spotted in BCA rules.
2. Leagues have a choice as how to treat the 8 ball going in on the break. Option 1 is like bar rules above, option 2 is BCA. VNEA uses option 2 at official events.
3. The table is always open after a break, but the 8-Ball can be struck first, unlike the BCA rules.
4. When shooting the 8-Ball only the ball and pocket must be called, just like BCA, but in addition, a physical object must be placed next to that pocket. All shots must be called pocket, but only the 8 requires a physical marker.
TAP Rules that differ from BCA/WPA rules
1. Making the 8 on the break is a win, if a scratch also, a loss. TAP uses Bar Rules here.
2. If a player jumps one of his own balls off the table, it is spotted.
3. The pocket which the 8-Ball is called to must be physically marked.
4. If shooting at the 8-Ball, a scratch is a loss.
APA Rules that differ from BCA/WPA rules
1. Making the 8 on the break is a win, if a scratch also, a loss. APA plays Bar Rules here.
2. If more balls of one group than the other are made on the break, the table is closed and the breaker is assigned that group. If an equal number of both groups are made the table remains open.
3. Shots other than the 8-Ball do not need to be called, slop counts in this league.
4. Disturbed balls are not a foul and must be replaced; the opponent does not have a choice like in the other leagues.
5. The pocket for the 8-Ball must be physically marked.
6. If shooting at the 8-Ball, a scratch is a loss.
In conclusion, even though there are many sets of rules, only bar rules still play scratches to the kitchen and no punishment for other fouls. Bar Rules, TAP and APA have a scratch on the 8 is a loss, but VNEA and BCAPL do not. All leagues play ball-in-hand for everything after the break, only BCAPL give ball-in-hand for a foul on the break. Bar Rules, VNEA option #1, TAP and APA play that the 8 on the break is a win. BCAPL and VNEA option #2 play that it is neither a win or a loss, the 8 ball is spotted or reracked. All leagues play ball/pocket on called shots (APA only calls the 8).

Basically, the way people play in their home bar is probably wrong, because all leagues punish all fouls with ball-in-hand after the break. Leagues also no not require details of shots to be called.

Mitch Alsup on 8/21/2013 8:54:02 AM
When I was playing in APA (last year) the rule was if you jump you have to use your play cue and hit the cue ball above the equator (that is jumping is ok if you use your play cue).

This rule may have changed by now.

no jump shots and calling the pocket

Title: no jump shots and calling the pocket
Author: stevenn21 (Steven Noble)
Published: 8/16/2013 1:30:13 PM