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Break Shot where Object Ball Falls First, then the 8 Ball is Pocketed

11/24/2018 9:55:19 PM

Break Shot where Object Ball Falls First, then the 8 Ball is Pocketed

I have read the answers on the earlier question sinking 8 ball on the break, and understand, but I need to get something clarified.

During normal 8 ball (solids vs stripes), if someone breaks the rack and either a solid or stripe goes in first and then the 8 ball goes in, does the breaker lose or win?

We usually play that if one sinks the 8-ball off the break, then the breaker wins, but because another ball went in first the breaker loses.

Please clarify for me. Your help is appreciated.

This question relates to the following billiard rules:

Break Shot where Object Ball Falls First, then the 8 Ball is Pocketed

Replies & Comments
  1. user1543125319billiardsforum on 11/25/2018 6:23:09 AM

    It it doesn't matter what is pocketed first. Pocketing the 8 ball on the break shot always results in the same outcomes.

    The WPA rules are clear, and there are not clauses indicating anything different is to be done when the 8 ball is pocketed on the break shot and other object balls fall first. The same rules apply.

    3.3 Break Shot

    The following rules apply to the break shot:

    [...]

    (e) Pocketing the eight ball on a legal break shot is not a foul. If the eight ball is pocketed, the breaker has the option of

    1. re-spotting the eight ball and accepting the balls in position, or
    2. re-breaking.

    Source: wpapool.com/rules-of-play/

    Seems to me that it's spelled out fairly clearly.

  2. user1543125319user1649806089 on 4/12/2022 4:28:02 PM

    The only exception to the above response is if you are playing on a coin-operated table (because a re-spot or a re-break would require feeding more money into the table to get the 8-ball back (if re-spotting) and any other balls back (if re-breaking). Some leagues that follow BCA/WPA/derivative rules will use "bar rules" or "APA rules" for sinking the 8-ball:

    • If the 8-ball is pocketed on the break and no foul is committed (regardless of any other balls pocketed before or after the 8-ball), the breaker wins.
    • If the 8-ball is pocketed on the break and ANY foul is committed (e.g.: scratch, jumping any other ball off the table including the cue ball, illegal break, etc.), then the breaker loses.

    If you're not playing on a coin-operated table and you're using BCA/WPA/derivative rules, then the original response above covering sinking the 8-ball on the break is correct when NO foul is committed on the break (regardless of any other balls pocketed before or after the 8-ball). However, if the 8-ball is sunk on the break and either

    A) A scratch occurs or

    B) the cue ball is jumped off the table

    ...then the opponent gets the same choices mentioned in the original response, but if they choose #1, they must place the ball in the kitchen (the only time a cue ball foul results in ball-in-kitchen instead of ball-in-hand).

  3. user1543125319RayMills on 4/12/2022 7:55:34 PM

    So the question of whether it matters that another object ball fell first is not affected. Do the rules ever address whether players must be forced to insert more money, or even find substitute numbered balls?

  4. user1543125319user1649806089 on 4/13/2022 7:51:22 AM

    If you are playing with the coin-operated exception rules, then that's not relevant, as you'll end up with an automatic win (sink 8-ball on break, no fouls) or an automatic loss (sink 8-ball on break plus some kind of foul), and if you want to play more, you're starting a new game--thus inserting more money, which will get you your 8-ball and any other object balls back.

    In other words, you can't really play with pure BCA/WPA 8-ball-on-break rules using a coin-operated table.

  5. user1543125319RayMills on 4/13/2022 12:33:29 PM

    It appears that dedicated barbox users should have extra balls or coins available, for purity. Many bartenders have extra balls lying around, even temporarily on an adjoining table.

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Break Shot where Object Ball Falls First, then the 8 Ball is Pocketed

  • Title: Break Shot where Object Ball Falls First, then the 8 Ball is Pocketed
  • Author:
  • Published: 11/24/2018 9:55:19 PM
  • Last Updated: 3/30/2022 3:55:09 AM
  • Last Updated By: billiardsforum (Billiards Forum)