14.1 Straight Pool, Eligible Ball?
5/26/2012 7:02:06 AM
14.1 Straight Pool, Eligible Ball?
As per BCA rules, if the 15th ball is within in the rack and the cue ball is not in the rack or on the head spot, the 15th ball is placed on the head spot.
Now that the 15th ball is on the head spot - is it eligible as a legal object ball - after the remaining 14 balls are racked and play resumes?
For that matter, is any ball centered on the head string, eligible when ball-in-hand occurs?
This question relates to the following billiard rules:
14.1 Straight Pool, Eligible Ball?
Replies & Comments
Mitch Alsup on 5/28/2012 11:49:11 AM
Once the 15-ball is positioned in the rack, the continuing player has to hit a ball and then drive one ball to a rail (unlike the break where 2 balls must hit a rail). Which ball is hit first does not mater, which ball hits a rail does not mater, and neither needs to be called to avoid a foul. However, only a called ball dropping in the called pocket counts (and inning continues), otherwise the pocketed ball is placed on the line extending backwards from the head spot.
Excepting for the break (which is ball in kitchen and not ball in hand) all balls are eligible at all times. Any called ball going in the called pocket counts.
Zeke on 5/29/2012 6:57:17 AM
@Mitch Alsup - Perhaps I didn't state the question clearly enough, so I ask that you re-read my post.
It has to do with whether or not the results of a mandated (by the rules) spotting of the 15th ball (not the 15-ball) when placed on the head spot - due to it being left in the rack when it's time to re-rack.
The BCA rule: 6.9 (Figure 6-2) states: "If the 15th ball lies in the rack - or interferes with lowering the triangle - and, the cue ball is not in the rack or on the head spot, the 15th ball is to be spotted on the head spot.
My question was, is that spotted ball a legal ball to shoot and pocket, given it is on the head spot by virtue of the rule that says it is to be spotted there?
Thanks in advance, Ken
Fenwick on 5/30/2012 12:18:32 PM
He understood your question! Just a grammatical error. 15, 15th.
"My question was, is that spotted ball a legal ball to shoot and pocket, given it is on the head spot by virtue of the rule that says it is to be spotted there?" Yes.
"For that matter, is any ball centered on the head string, eligible when ball-in-hand occurs? " There is no ball in hand in 14/1; straight pool per-say.
Fenwick, What do you mean there is no ball-in-hand in 14.1? What happens when a player scratches? Is not the cue ball "ball-in-hand" after a scratch?
What am I missing?
Cue ball in the kitchen after a scratch is not the same as ball in hand. Ball in hand is anywhere on the table.
Fenwick,
I don't know how much "straight pool" you've played, but ball-in-hand is ONLY in the kitchen.
You must have forgotten...
By definition: Ball in hand ONLY in the kitchen IS ball in kitchen.
Better check your rules lad. In straight pool (14.1), there is no spotting on a scratch anywhere but in the kitchen.
We're not talking about 8-ball or 9-ball here.
If you don't know straight pool (14.1) rules, stay out of the discussion.
I've only been playing straight pool since 1960 and play it 4 or 5 times a week. I wasn't the one who asked.
"is that spotted ball a legal ball to shoot and pocket" I knew the answer as would any real Straight pool player!
"Better check your rules lad. In straight pool (14.1), there is no spotting on a scratch anywhere but in the kitchen." Lad, a male person of any age between early boyhood and maturity. Wow! Really?
"there is no spotting on a scratch anywhere but in the kitchen." "eligible when ball-in-hand occurs?" Thanks for the heads up.
So if the 15th ball is on the head spot, it has happens, and the cue ball is in the rack, where does the cue ball go?
It's the inter nit! (Also known as Pediculus capitis infestation)
Cheers
I asked about the rules, not your opinion about the rules Fenwick.
If you've been playing since 1960, your answer above, "There is no ball in hand in 14/1; straight pool per-say" confirms your lack of understanding of rules.
Your age is not relevant, your understanding of the rules however is.
BTW. I've been shooting pool since 1953. I was born in 1943. You do the math.
I have always played the way you and Mitch have. I just never found it in the rules. Which is why it was a rules question.
The answer to your rhetorical and snide question of course is, the center spot.
That one, is in the rules. The eligibility of the spotted 15th ball however, is not. At least not the books and internet info I have.
Then too, the BCA is not the only arbiter of "rules." They just want us to think they are. :)
Here it is: The rule I asked about that neither Mitch nor Fenwick referenced, that allows a ball spotted on the head string spot - to be a legal target ball - in "straight pool."
"General Billiard Rules - Definition of the Head String (Regulation 3.16)
The area behind the head string does not include the head string. Thus, an object ball that is dead center on the head string is playable when specific game rules require that a player must shoot at a ball past the head string. Similarly, when the cue ball is put in play behind the head string as done with cue ball in hand behind the head string, it may not be placed directly on the head string. It must be behind the head string."
Two different questions!
As per BCA rules, if the 15th ball is within in the rack and the cue ball is not in the rack or on the head spot, the 15th ball is placed on the head spot. Now that the 15th ball is on the head spot - is it eligible as a legal object ball - after the remaining 14 balls are racked and play resumes?
Answer: Yes.
For that matter, is any ball centered on the head string, eligible when ball-in-hand occurs?
Answer: No.
Can you understand the confusion?
That didn't work out so let me try again. Here it is: The rule I asked about that neither Mitch nor Fenwick referenced, that allows a ball spotted on the head string spot - to be a legal target ball - in "straight pool." That's a little more clearly worded but still a little vage.
" As per BCA rules, if the 15th ball is within in the rack and the cue ball is not in the rack or on the head spot, the 15th ball is placed on the head spot. Now that the 15th ball is on the head spot - is it eligible as a legal object ball - after the remaining 14 balls are racked and play resumes?" Heres what I read. Can you shoot the 15th. ball if it's spotted? Yes.
"General Billiard Rules - Definition of the Head String (Regulation 3.16)
The area behind the head string does not include the head string. Thus, an object ball that is dead center on the head string is playable when specific game rules require that a player must shoot at a ball past the head string. Similarly, when the cue ball is put in play behind the head string as done with cue ball in hand behind the head string, it may not be placed directly on the head string. It must be behind the head string."
Now this reads to me as a entirely different question. Here's how I tried to answer this based on the first post. The last ball, the 15th. in in the rack. It gets spotted. It's fair game if you can see it or chose to hit it. You elect not to hit it or you can't. You play a safe and scratch. Cue ball goes is in the kitchen, B.I.H. You can't hit the ball on the spot, it's in the kitchen.
I didn't and don't come here for a pi$$ing match. Never do but it is what it is. BTW I'm the same in real life. If you don't like my answers, opinion or tone too bad. We can both walk away or whatever. I prefer to let things slide but it's not always my choice.
Fenwick,
It has nothing to do with liking or disliking your answers.
It has to do with the rules - not your opinion of those rules.
You either did not know the answer or failed to cite the rule that answered my question.
I found the rule that perfectly answered the question - and then posted it.
It is what it is. The rules are the rules. I incorrectly assumed you knew the rules.
There is no pissing contest, merely correct and incorrect answers.
Fenwick,
You have no clue.
I'm going to be polite and just leave it at that.
Perhaps if you understood the way quotes work, the way this website works, how to write a response that makes sense, or understood that the question was already correctly answered almost a month ago - perhaps you could get back on track and avoid your confusion.
Good Luck!
billiardsforum on 7/16/2012 6:25:04 AMClosing the thread. Thanks to everyone for their contribution to the "14.1/Straight Pool - eligible ball" topic.
14.1 Straight Pool, Eligible Ball?
- Title: 14.1 Straight Pool, Eligible Ball?
- Author: Zeke (Ken Secor)
- Published: 5/26/2012 7:02:06 AM
